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[khix]

(not sure if I'm posting this in the right area/forum)

Is today's society, is it possible to live off the grid?  If so, how?

[barngirl]

Yes it is!!! I follow a blog and they live off grid...yes, they update their blog with something that her husband rigged up
http://www.eclecticculturefarm.blogspot.com/ Enjoy!!

[khix]

Thanks for the link, very interesting blog, I know I'll enjoy reading it.

But, what I really meant is....living under the radar so to speak.....sort of like where the government doesn't even know you exist.....where you owe the government (local, state, federal) nothing. 

I mean, we can't own/drive a vehicle or live on land or earn money without the government having its hand in it.  If that blogger owns the land he lives on & farms, then surely he pays property taxes? 

I suppose the first step to living under the radar would be to sell everything you own....but then what?  Live like a vagabond? 

I doubt what I'm talking about is doable....but I thought I'd ask to be sure....dh & I were talking about what it would take & what it would be like, and if it would be doable...but we kept running into obstacles with every idea we had.

Do the Amish pay property taxes & such?  How do you become Amish?  Are you born into it, or can anyone join?  What about Indians on reservations....do they pay taxes or anything?

[Ray Murphy]

Living in the UK our laws are somewhat different to yours, but I would suggest that what you seem to have in mind goes against what the bible teaches. Jesus said, "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars". In other words, like it or not the government of the land has a God given right to the taxes etc that they collect, however nice our ideas might seem.

Ray

[khix]

Well, I'm not here to discuss the right or wrong of it (that discussion is probably best left for 7xS), I'm just wondering if it can be done & if so, how.

[Ray Murphy]

OK. I don't think it is possible to "live off the grid". Basically you would need to own your own independant country, in which case, if there were any other citizens, you would be effectively charging them for what you provide for them. Safety, security etc.

Ray

[ridgerunner]

I don't think there's a way to do it without breaking the law.  From what I understand, the Amish do pay taxes just like anyone else on most things, and fill out a lot of government reports on the things that they don't pay taxes on. 

Indian Reservations are under the government too (BIA), and you have to have a certain percentage of documented Indian blood before you can live on one.  I don't think they can be taxed, but not just anybody can go live there.  I have enough Indian Blood traced through Apache records, but because there were generation of my family who considered that shameful, the documents accepted by the government as 'proof' were destroyed. From my experience most of the reservations aren't desirable places to be, but I haven't been to very many.

The only way I know of to do it is to live like gypsy/hippy/etc. Own nothing more than a mode of transportation (horse and buggy are not required to be registered as far as I know) and 'rest' in free camping areas.  To survive you'd have to poach animals, crops, etc. or sell things 'under the table' for money to purchase food.  You'd need firearms, which are required to be registered by law.  Unless you were good with a bow and arrow... don't know if those have to be registered or not. 

I think it can be done only if you are willing to break the law, and the more laws you were willing to break (regarding registration and tax evasion) the easier it would be.  A time may come when breaking the law is necassary for survival... but I don't think it's here yet and that's probably a whole different discussion.  Just my thoughts on this... haven't done any real research on it.     

[Ray Murphy]

MY wife has just come up with a way that people could get under the radar. If your children are born at home and remain unregistered then as far as the government is concerned they do not exist. However, this would mean that they could never travel out of the country. They could only work for themselves on a cash basis. They could never buy property. They could never own a car. Medical help would have to be on a private basis, I'm not sure that they could even get that as they do not exist, and so on.

Ray

[Mama Sita]

Our Amish here pay income & property taxes, but they do not have Social Security or Medicare taxes taken out of their paychecks, since not one of them has ever used the system.

[khix]

I don't think there's a way to do it without breaking the law.  From what I understand, the Amish do pay taxes just like anyone else on most things, and fill out a lot of government reports on the things that they don't pay taxes on.   

Our Amish here pay income & property taxes, but they do not have Social Security or Medicare taxes taken out of their paychecks, since not one of them has ever used the system.

Thanks for clearing that up!

The only way I know of to do it is to live like gypsy/hippy/etc. Own nothing more than a mode of transportation (horse and buggy are not required to be registered as far as I know) and 'rest' in free camping areas.  To survive you'd have to poach animals, crops, etc. or sell things 'under the table' for money to purchase food.  You'd need firearms, which are required to be registered by law.  Unless you were good with a bow and arrow... don't know if those have to be registered or not. 

I think it can be done only if you are willing to break the law, and the more laws you were willing to break (regarding registration and tax evasion) the easier it would be.  A time may come when breaking the law is necassary for survival... but I don't think it's here yet and that's probably a whole different discussion.  Just my thoughts on this... haven't done any real research on it.    

 

Yeah, that's what we were thinking.....living like a gyspy, vagabond, etc.  But so many laws would be broken.....which is sad, if you ask me....sad that there are sooooooo many laws......sad that our society is regulated & taxed so much.

They could only work for themselves on a cash basis. They could never buy property. They could never own a car. Medical help would have to be on a private basis, I'm not sure that they could even get that as they do not exist, and so on.

Yeah, you're right....but I think it's sad that that's the case.  I mean, before 1913, there was no income tax.  The government did just fine without it.  A sales tax (even a property tax) is one thing, but to tax someone's income is just wrong, if you ask me.  And I'm pretty sure the Pilgrims didn't buy any land from the Native Americans or pay any taxes on it, lol.  I mean, they just & claimed the land & starting living on it & working it.....so how did it come about where someone decided that the land was owned by someone & it could be bought/sold, and how did it come about that the government could tax the land you live on?  Yep, the Native Americans were doing it right, before the white folk came & messed everything up.  But, oh well....what's done is done.  And you're right, unless you want to live like a gypsy, there's just no way to live completely off the grid.  Sad.

Regarding the income tax, Ron Paul had this to say about it:

   

The harmful effects of the income tax are obvious. First and foremost, it has enabled government to expand far beyond its proper constitutional limits, regulating virtually every aspect of our lives. It has given government a claim on our lives and work, destroying our privacy in the process. It takes billions of dollars out of the legitimate private economy, with most Americans giving more than a third of everything they make to the federal government. This economic drain destroys jobs and penalizes productive behavior. The ridiculous complexity of the tax laws makes compliance a nightmare for both individuals and businesses....

And I agree....it's too much & enough is enough....this is partly what spurred this discussion between dh & I, and why I wanted to know if living off the grid could actually be done.

Thanks, everyone, for your opinions & facts!

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